Discussing religious views, contemplating the unknown, and trying to make sense of God & life are all things I tend to be very passionate about. In an inter-blog conversation, I have discussed a few views with a fellow blogger, Eruesso, and thought I would post some thoughts of this discussion.
First, I just want to touch on a few points before I get into discussing some theological points.
- This isn’t a debate, per se. I respect Eruesso’s views totally, and I am not trying to say “My way is better.” I am merely discussing my views in comparison to his. People critique my views & beliefs all the time (in fact, that is how I came to know Eruesso). So while it may appear somewhat as a debate, it isn’t. We do not necessarily have to defend each other’s beliefs, nor do we necessarily need to follow up with anything (unless you feel the urge).
- I still do not have comments enabled. This is because I run several sites/blogs, and long ago I realized that if I were to keep comments on them all, it would take too much time to manage them in addition to my other projects & business. I was literally spending hours just sifting through the spam, and responding to comments. So I completely removed the coding for comments to appear a long time ago for individual pages. And this being a religious blog, it would be really impossible to write something without offending someone, or getting flamed by every other religion/denomination. So I really don’t intend to bring them back at this point so I can focus on my own views, and not spend a ton of time daily defending them or arguing articles I may have written months ago. If you want to follow up, you can do so on your blog, or in your comment section, or in the ask me a question section. But as I said, this is more of a discussion than a debate, so you don’t necessarily need to follow up, and I would be totally fine if you don’t reply at all, or just simply address a few of the things you wanted to discuss in another blog post of your own. That tends to keep the pages more organized & easier to read.
- I mean no harm at all. I have nothing but love for everyone. Sometimes my writing gets a bit “saucy,” but I am a very gentle & laid back guy in real life. So I hope no one ever takes offense at anything I ever write on this blog. I just think writing gets a little more interesting when dramatic examples are used, or a “saucy” attitude is used. Writing gives me an opportunity to express my very deepest thoughts in a (somewhat) coherent fashion that I probably wouldn’t be able to express in person.
- I too am on a religious journey myself. I think we grow until the day we die. I don’t have all of the answers. I may be wrong on several points (or every point). I think the reason I want to discuss certain points is because I am in a different point in my journey, but I remember when I was thinking similar things to Eruesso. I am beyond the “does God exist” phase, and have progressed to the views that God does exist, he has revealed himself, and we should pay attention to what it says. That is a good summary of my beliefs at this point.
Should Our Beliefs Be Challenged in Life? Should Our Beliefs Make Sense?
I spend quite a bit of my spare time studying religion, debating & discussing issues on blogs, forums, and with friends/family, and more. I feel that if we choose to accept a religious belief, we should have a reason. Our religious beliefs should make sense, be well thought out, and they should be able to be challenged & defended. They should also have some support (scripturally, historically, scientifically, etc.).
Sure, we can all say we worship the flying spaghetti monster, but what is the basis of that belief? None really. Or we can create a God out of our imagination (much like a child creates an imaginary friend), but what good does that do? None really.
Only through rigorous studying, challenging, reasoning, logical analysis, and defense can one truly understand what they believe, and why they believe it. The more complete a person’s beliefs are, the better they can defend them, and the stronger that person’s faith & spirituality will be. I also think they will be most accurate in their beliefs (i.e. the more they have to think, reason, and defend their beliefs— the more they understand why they think what they think).
Too many people have a “non-thinking” theology. I know a lot of people who claim to believe in God, but certainly don’t act like it. I know people who go to church one day, and then do drugs, have promiscuous sex, and worse the next few days. In other words, many people have beliefs, but not well thought-out or followed beliefs. Shouldn’t we all thoroughly examine our beliefs to make them air-tight as possible? Isn’t part of the religious experience finding the beliefs that make sense to us, and then reconciling our actions to match those beliefs?
This point can be illustrated with a diamond for example. A diamond is really quite boring looking when found naturally in nature. It is usually a pale white or yellow color, not totally transparent, and usually looks like a smooth rock. Only after a diamond has been rigorously polished, cut with care, and shaped to perfection can we truly appreciate that diamond’s beauty. Only then can that diamond sparkle with beauty & yet be hard enough to cut glass.
When our beliefs are cut, when our views polished, and our theology hardened, we arrive at a very profound spiritual place. It transcends this life, and gives us a level of strength & comfort that we wouldn’t achieve otherwise. That is my ultimate goal, and I hope everyone arrives at their spiritual goals as well.
Does God Exist? Is He Hidden or Revealed?
Some things in life can be answered very simply with an absolute Yes/No. You are either pregnant or not pregnant (you can’t be a little bit pregnant as the joke goes). Either God does exist, or he does not. Either God has revealed himself, or he has not. To me, these are absolute yes/no answers. Sure, some can debate the nature of God, but he either exists as defined by modern man or he does not.
If the answers to questions about God are “yes,” that MEANS SOMETHING. We should really think about what it means, & how it affects us. If the answers are “no,” then it means NOTHING. We then don’t know God, can’t know God, and God really means nothing anyways. This can be illustrated in a textual flow chart below that summarizes my basic views on things:
My Spiritual Flow Chart:
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Question 1: Does God Exist?
If No, stop here. Life is pointless, become an atheist (hopefully a moral one). Enjoy life while you have it, because you & everyone you know will soon be dead forever. You mean nothing more than a rock, your life doesn’t matter, the human race will die with the next meteor or nuke anyways.
If yes (God does exist), go to question 2.
Question 2: Has God Revealed Himself or Communicated with Mankind?
If No, stop here. God is useless and doesn’t care about us, and we can never fully know God’s nature anyways. You may as well go back to question 1 and choose atheism. He perhaps created the world and forgot about us, or perhaps we are nothing more than an experiment that God will throw away into some black hole when He is finished. There is likely no afterlife, no way to know what this God expects of us.
If yes (God has communicated with us), continue to question 3.
Question 3: Which Religion Is The True Representation of that Communication?
If all religions are 100% false, stop here & go back to question 1. God is again pointless. He is nothing more than man’s imagination, man’s ideas of God, and all who claim divine inspiration were mad-men & dishonest people who I wouldn’t trust alone with my dog. Let’s face it, they made crap up! If God hasn’t clearly told us his nature, what he expects, the rules, etc. then we have no rules. We might as well be atheists, it won’t matter either way. If God has not made an attempt to clearly identify himself, then he is pointless & meaningless in every sense of the word. Why follow any rules? Why follow any religion? Why seek God, if God doesn’t care enough to seek out His own creation? If he doesn’t care about us, why care about him? We can’t know him, we can only guess. If he doesn’t care enough to seek us out, chances are, he probably doesn’t care enough to give us eternal life, justice, or anything else either. You can choose to believe in God while rejecting all religions, but it is a weak belief, and when pressed, it will be impossible or hard to defend them at all. Even if one can defend it, there God is undefined & completely meaningless. Many deists believe this, and I would really define a deist as nothing more than an atheist with an open mind. That is really all they are.
If all religions are true stop here. Get your head examined as they all can’t be true as they are contradictory in nature. They may all contain some basic truths mixed with lies or falsities, but some parts of one religion will contradict another. So only 1 can possibly be the 100% correct religion. They can’t all be 100% true as they are all different & irreconcilable in nature. You can choose to believe this, but when pressed about your beliefs you will find it hard to defend them, and you will be left with irreconcilable problems.
If you choose no religious interpretation as 100% true, but still believe in God, stop here. You in fact, have no basis for your God. He is no different than the flying spaghetti monster. He is a false God, one only existing in one’s imagination. He is in fact not real, but only a God pieced together by picking & choosing the nature of how you want God to be. If he is in fact real, you might as well be immoral, as it makes no difference. We can pick parts of this religion, ignore parts of that one, etc. until we put together a false God. This means nothing either. He is not real. It is a new religion. At this point, you can create a false idol to worship (obey) privately, or start a new cult, or just have a shallow belief system. This is nothing new, as people do this all the time today, and have been doing it since man has existed. But again, this God is meaningless. What rewards does he offer? What justice for the ones who are beaten, raped, murdered, etc? How do we know he even exists? By picking & choosing, we create him in our minds. It is not the God as revealed by any religion for sure, because each religion has a very specific interpretation of God.
If there is a true religion and you have examined them all and picked the one that seems most logical, best supporting evidence, feels right, etc., go to question 4.
Question 4: Which Doctrine is True?
If a doctrine within the religion of your choosing is sound & supported by scripture, logic, reason, and more, then accept that one. If a doctrine is not sound, do not believe it. Once you choose your doctrines you believe, go to question 5.
Question 5: Do You Live Your Life According to Your Beliefs?
If yes, congratulations, you are a great spiritual person who has reached a level most people do not reach. You not only have a deep belief system, but you practice what you preach. This is a journey, not a destination. Every day there is a battle to live according to your beliefs. You may have some failures along the way, but if you hold to this, you are a very disciplined person (spiritually). You will have achieved a level of spirituality that few ever reach.
If No, go back to question 4 and reconcile your beliefs with your actions. Find out what you are doing that contradicts your beliefs, and resolve them (ie, become a better person as defined by your religion). Example: Stop cheating on your wife, stop doing drugs, stop lying, etc.
That flow chart above is perhaps overly-simplified, but I think there is a lot of truth in it, and many people go down the paths I outlined above. The person who makes it to the end is the most devout person, with a stronger spirituality than any other. The person who gets trapped at an earlier point in the “flow”, may have a belief, but it is a weak belief. They will never fully define God. They will never build the kind of spiritual “foundation” they may desire. A building is only as good as its foundation. A belief in God is only as good as its foundation. If you want a high level of spirituality, you must know your beliefs, defend your beliefs, and ultimately become your beliefs.
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More About God’s Communication With Us:
As the example above illustrated, it just seems that either God has or has not communicated with us. If he has, we should take it for what it is. If he has not, then God is irrelevant to our lives. He is no more relevant than a person who lives on the other side of the planet. They will never know us, we will never know them.
My friend Eruesso believes in God, but has a very “atheistic” or “secular” view about many things in religion & life. In fact, I would mistake him for a moral atheist at times if he didn’t come out and say he did in fact believe in God. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all, and each person is fully entitled to their beliefs (or no beliefs at all). But since I debate & talk with a lot of atheists, I know many things they say, and it seems to line up with the same things Eruesso says (which is why I say he sounds like a moral atheist more than a person who believes in God many times). Again, no offense at all to him, because he is a great writer, a great guy, and on his own individual journey. I am just saying that it seems like the secular or atheist thinking will likely slow your spiritual journey down (in my opinion). At some point it seems you will have to abandon your secular excuses & accept a religion, or reject religion and accept atheism. That, to me, is the thing that fascinates me most about your journey. Which will you choose?
But anyways, back to the example of God communicating with us. You seem to think all religions have truth in them (which I would agree with), but you think none are 100% right either (which I disagree with). Again, if God has revealed himself, then there must be 1 ultimate truth. If he has not revealed himself, then all religions are nothing more than lies of crazy men making it all up to begin with. Either that or God is psychopath who loves playing games & watching us die in horror.
If God is just broadcasting bits & pieces of a signal to each religion, and keeping himself hidden, and even providing contradictory commands to each religion, then what kind of sick God is that? None worthy of worship from me, that is for sure. If God has indeed put out 1 ultimate truth, and that truth holds true today, then that God should be obeyed.
You used the analogy of the antenna, and I will expand on that. If God has indeed put out a signal at all, then we can assume that he is trying to convey something to us. Why would God put out a weak signal that confuses people? Why put out contradictory signals? He would logically put out 1 clear beacon that contains the ultimate truth of Himself, and his commands for us to live by. Sure, he may allow others to continue in their manipulation, but only because there is 1 complete truth that has been established, and he feels no need to make a further effort in this part.
Let’s pretend for a moment that all major world religions are like television stations. Hinduism is like MTV, Buddhism is like Disney, Judaism is like Fox, Christianity is like ABC, and Islam is like CBS, etc.
The one true religion will broadcast God’s signal perfectly. False religions will contain some input of God’s signal, but it will be distorted by their own programs. You may be able to hear God some, but there will be white fuzzy snow on the screen at times, and you may miss things, or hear things incorrectly.
Or suppose God is a great treasure (an elixir that grants eternal life). Some people (atheists), don’t believe the treasure exists at all. However, the majority do believe the treasure exists, but there are contradictory maps on how to find this treasure. There is only 1 elixir. Each map by a group of people represents a religion. Some maps say you can find this treasure by going to one location. Other maps give another location.
In general, all maps agree that there is one great treasure (an elixir that grants eternal life). In fact, many maps have several similarities in the descriptions of the treasure. However, they all have different “directions” on how one can reach that treasure. One map may say the treasure is in Egypt. Another may say in Pakistan. In this scenario, you can believe there is a treasure, but simply never look for it. This is a lazy theology, and sadly many people have this theology in life.
You can also say that all maps are just man’s interpretation of how to find this great treasure. But that doesn’t make sense either, because they all give a different location. Either they are all false maps made up, or one map truly leads directly to this treasure. There is no in-between. There is also another option, you can create your own map by piecing together bits of all of the other maps, but it is just making stuff up, and really won’t work because they all have a different destination. It is impossible for the treasure to be at 2 locations or 5. There is only 1 treasure, and it can only exist in one of the destinations. If all maps are wrong, but the elixir does still exist, then the person or entity who buried the elixir doesn’t want it to be found by anyone–in which case, people may as well stop searching.
However, a God that is capable of creating such a vast universe, such complex creatures, should also be capable of putting our 1 complete truth that he is satisfied with us knowing & trusting. Which truth is that? That is up to the reader to decide. I think Christianity is the complete picture, others may choose otherwise. But if God is broadcasting (or wrote a map), why not choose the station (or map) with the clearest picture (or the one that leads to the treasure)? What good does it do to say a God exists, and try to create God based on contradictory religions (or directions)?
Should We Love All People? Is God Love? What About Justice?
I certainly think love is the core of God. God is full of love. The messages of God’s love are evident from the first to last chapter of the bible. God is merciful, loving, just. That is the main message. People can squabble over events in the bible or twist scripture & say he is mean, but as I pointed out in my last post, that isn’t honest. It is a dishonest interpretation of the what it really teaches. The bible teaches God’s love. The bible even says something that I love which goes: “If you know love, you are in God and God is in you.”
As humans in God’s creation, I agree 100% that we should be loving. We should love people, as God loves us. The bible says we should all be loving, etc. as do most religions. There is nothing wrong with loving others, and we should all strive to do so. Jesus even says love your enemy! If that doesn’t show us to love, then what verse does? I see no issues with loving people at all, and I recommend everyone do it. Love itself contradicts no religion (known to me).
So there is nothing wrong with loving a person. But again, here is the problem for God: In order for an all-powerful being to be just & fully loving, he must punish evil that exists to contradict his plan of love.
This makes sense, right? I mean how could God fully love us if he allows us to be murdered, killed, raped, beaten, disease-stricken, etc. and never follow up with justice? That God is useless, and in fact evil. He may as well not exist at all if he isn’t going to do something to resolve this problem.
So to say we should love, and God is a laid back God who loves all peoples good & bad, & throws up peace signs all day gets a bit contradictory. Does God stand back, and never bring a murderer to justice in this “great judgment” or “resurrection” that all main monotheistic religions speak of? How on Earth could God be just without punishing evil? Would you say we have a loving government that allows criminals to continue to kill/rape the good citizens? That isn’t a fair or loving government!
How could God be loving, while allowing his creation to be subjected to the evil of others for eternity? It simply doesn’t make sense, and if that is the nature of God, he is pointless to us. A loving God must remove evil, in order to maintain love. If he allows evil & injustice to persist, that is not love!
Would you say a man who lets someone come over every day & beat his child, and does nothing, and plans to do nothing in the future, is a loving father? I hope not! Yet this happens every day, friend! People get beaten, tortured, raped, killed, etc. by others. If God lets this go on, that certainly isn’t love, nor a loving father/creator! If he never brings people to justice that got away from it, that ain’t love. If he never restores righteous people’s lives who died tragically, and grants them life again in perfect peace, that ain’t a loving God, friend. It is a mean God, just like that man who lets his own child be beaten every day is mean.
And you may argue that the government/police should take care of this problem, but how can they ever be fully just? To be fully just, they would have to know exactly what happened in every situation (not just look at evidence). They would have to understand that person’s mind. And what about people who do injustice but never get caught? God solves all of those problems. He fully knows man’s heart, thoughts, and actions at all times.
It makes sense that he may allow us to suffer for a time, but then correct the situation & provide eternal love & justice. There are several logical reasons why He may do that. That I can understand. But for God to simply exist, turn his back on suffering, and never do a thing about it is cruel. That God is meaningless to us, as he won’t change anything at all. Why seek a God like this? I would spit in a an evil God’s face that was truly evil like this.
Some think that eventually society will be all peaceful, and happy. I seriously doubt that. There is no basis for that belief at all. If one has any doubts, flip on the news and you will be told quite differently the reality of the current situation on Earth. Nukes are going to countries that don’t need them. Technology is going crazy. New strains of viruses & deadly bacteria are being cultured as we speak. People strap bombs to their chest daily, etc. This world will never be a peaceful happy world by itself. Not by a long shot. Before that happened, the world would surely be destroyed by a meteor, nuke, or taken over by another Hitler. Our own country (The US), certainly isn’t becoming better either!
Every day we hear of another crooked politician that is getting kicked out of the senate. The bible paints a picture of corruption and evil that only escalates right before the end. To assume Earth is somehow going to become better is a real fantasy that I have serious doubts of ever coming true without divine intervention & justice. Anyone that suggests otherwise is ignoring the realities of life.
If God Has Not Fully Been Revealed, Which Standard is Right?
Again, if God hasn’t revealed himself at all, then which standard is the “right” standard? This becomes a huge problem, and I will explain why with a scenario below:
Tribe # 1
Let’s say there is a happy tribe of people in Africa. The women walk around topless (with their breasts exposed). They all drink cow’s blood for a snack. They think homosexuality is great, and they love spreading the “free love.” They make children perform sexual acts, etc. They also kill all people in their society when they turn age 45, because they think their spirits will go straight to heaven if they do this.
Now this society all agrees this is acceptable behavior. They all get along fine. They are all happy. They bother no other tribes, and everything is going very smoothly for them. The people cannot wait to turn 45 to leave this world during their tribal murder event.
Tribe # 2
Now, let’s assume there is another tribe thousands of miles away. This tribe is much different in comparison to the other. They do not drink blood, because they think it is wrong. They fully clothe themselves because they view nakedness as private. They do not perform sexual acts with children, because they are innocent & before the age of puberty. They do not have homosexual relations, because they view this as unnatural. They have monogamous relationships that usually last for as long as they live. They all live old age, and die natural deaths.
Now, keeping the above 2 tribes in mind, let’s assume God has not revealed himself (or doesn’t exist), and he has not established a specific moral law in any 1 religion. Which tribe is wrong? Neither. They are both correct. In each society, they all live according to their own acceptable standard. 1 tribe has no right at all to enforce their beliefs on another. There is no God that exists, or no God that has revealed himself, then no one has a right to say their belief is better. Neither tribe has any better or any worse moral views. Universal morality is a joke, as there is no such thing in the absence of God. No one can piece together a form of universal morality by piecing together all religions, because of contradictions that exist among them.
No one has a right to say one belief is superior or more moral than another. They are completely equal, because without a clear definition of morality from a creator or ultimate superiority, then anything goes! Morality can only be measured in comparison to an ultimate standard. We wouldn’t know if we were rich, unless we could compare our wealth to others. We would never know if we were tall or short unless we could compare with others. There must be an ultimate standard to compare, a measuring stick so to speak, that clearly defines what is moral, and what is immoral. If the definition of morality is man’s own definition, then man is wrong, as it is subjective and not all share the same views.
In that situation, man is simply choosing an opinion & enforcing it on others. That would be like asking mankind which is better, a pepperoni pizza or a sausage pizza. If there is no God clearly dictating which is best, then man is doing nothing more than choosing his favorite one. Morality then becomes completely subjective, based only on one’s views. Neither is wrong, just like there is no right or wrong answer to the question, “Which tastes better, a pepperoni pizza or sausage pizza?” That question is completely subjective. There is no ultimate 1 truth.
Man has no right to impose his moral beliefs on another, and God would have no right to impose judgment or anything else on mankind. We could never know if it were moral or immoral to have sex with kids. One tribe does, the other doesn’t. Who is right? Neither is right, neither is wrong.They are only different in their beliefs. This is true if God doesn’t exist or define himself clearly.
Again, even if God does exist, and all religions contain some truths (but yet none ultimately are 100% God’s word), the different religions will contradict themselves in many parts (with the exception of Judaism/Christianity texts). You can’t define morality based on a comparative view on all religions, as they will quickly prove to be contradictory in parts.
So we cannot say all religions are true, because 2 contradictory things cannot simultaneously be true. We can say all religions have truthful parts. That is an observable fact. But we cannot say all are 100% true. We can either pick 1 as 100% truth, or reject them all. We cannot logically say they are all 100% true.
If none are true, then God has never defined himself or set a standard to follow. We can say all religions teach of morality, but the morality among the different religions are, again, contradictory and man-made. One religion may be tribe 2, another may be tribe 1. Which is the “correct” one? Which is the ultimate source? They can’t both be right or wrong.
Again, if God has set a standard, then we can judge those 2 tribes by a moral standard which God set. We can say tribe # 2 was the most moral or most righteous tribe, because they are following a set of morals that God has dictated best.
Can We Stay Neutral to All Religions if God Exists & Clearly Sent a Message?
Here comes another difficulty. If God does exist, and has communicated with us directly, do we have a right to remain neutral? Will God not judge us according to a set of standards He Himself declared? Does the IRS not audit people based on the laws they give? Why wouldn’t God do the same? Would anyone in their right mind know the IRS rules, yet not obey them? Actually yes, that happens every day.
Again, if God exists but enjoys playing games with planet Earth, and keeps himself hidden & just gives us hints every few thousand years, then God is devious, and evil. We will never know this God, and why follow him? Why search for him? He probably doesn’t care much for us at all as a race. He for sure doesn’t care of morality, as every single day people die horrific deaths. People are beaten to death, raped, shot, starved, drowned, given diseases, etc. All humans suffer in this life!
If God has revealed himself, and we choose to ignore it, does that have a consequence? Let us consider God for a moment.
A popular teaching of Christianity (and other monotheistic religions) is that if a person has never heard the word of God, yet dies, God will judge that person according to the only standards they knew, and he will judge them based on their individual righteousness.
If, however, a person does hear God’s laws, but rejects them, then they are subject to judgment based on what they knew. If they are a “good person” by society’s standards, yet are not a “good person” by God’s standards, they do not pass judgment quite so easily. Jesus himself taught something on this teaching.
Let me illustrate this, and let us consider what we would do in God’s situation (sort of). Let us pretend we are a ruler of a city. In our city, we make a rule that people must not drive their vehicles on Sunday. It is strictly forbidden.
A person (Bob) then rolls into town. He never knew this law. He grew up in an area where it was fine to drive on Sundays. He never knew of a law that prohibited it. He came driving into the city on Sunday. Another person witnessed this (Sally), and the next day had Bob arrested. Bob comes to you (the city leader), and you will judge & sentence this person based on this law. If we truly see that this is a genuinely good person, who made an honest mistake, and was in a very different circumstance than most people, then we may choose to be merciful to this person. We may just let them go without punishment. After all, Bob seems like a great guy, he apologized, and agreed to never again drive on Sunday. He obviously had no idea about the law.
In that same scenario, we can understand why God may have mercy on those who genuinely never had a chance to learn his word. If a person died young, or was imprisoned their who lives and taught evil things, we can see why God may have mercy on them. And God having the ability to really know what man has experienced & learned in his life ensures God’s judgment will be accurate. So a person who only had a “bad signal” their whole life will be judged accordingly. The bible teaches a similar scenario, and this is not just me trying to make up God’s nature.
Now let us consider a different example. A long-time citizen of the same town mentioned above (Jerry), knows full & well not to drive on Sundays. In fact, he personally knows the city leader, and has even served in the government before. He knows that if he drives, it is wrong. He also knows that other “cities” don’t have this same law. He eventually thinks his ultimate city isn’t the “best city,” so Jerry grows tired of following this law.
One day, Jerry decides it would be fun to drive on Sunday. So he hops into his vehicle, and drives around on a nice sunny day. The next day, a person tells the authorities, and Jerry is brought before the same leader.
In this situation, Jerry knows good & well that he isn’t to drive on Sundays (and the leader personally knows this). Jerry may know about other cities that don’t have this rule, but it doesn’t matter. Jerry knew good & well not to break this law, and if he did, the city will punish him according to the law.
In this situation, Jerry deserves to be punished according to the law, because he knew good and well what the law was. He may not like the law. He may despise the law or disagree with it. But if he lives under the authority of the law, he is subjected to the law. The city leader knew Jerry understood this law, therefore, Jerry should be sentenced to the judgment the law prescribes.
Make no mistake about this one fact: Because God may extend mercy to those who are outside of his law (or uneducated about them), do not think that is an opportunity to not obey what you do know. That is a grave mistake, with dire consequences (if God exists). So please, never confuse God’s mercy with a universal “love”. God’s mercy in one situation, does not mean he judges all people that way. Almost all religions warns of this incorrect thinking.
If there is a God, we are all subject to his authority. We are all subject to His rules. He made us, therefore He is the boss. He chooses what is right, and He chooses what is wrong. He defines morality, he says what goes. How do we then, mere humans, over-ride this authority? How do we say something is right, if God declares it wrong? In fact, we cannot (at least, not without facing possible consequences).
So what do we do? If God has communicated, we have to make a choice. If God hasn’t clearly communicated, he is a worthless & evil God. He can’t be both. Either he has or hasn’t. Either he is or isn’t. I see no way to have our cake & eat it too in this situation.
If God has set authoritative laws on living & morality, then we are all subject to those laws. If we have heard them, then that knowledge will be available during the “audit” from God. If no authoritative laws of living & morality have not been issued by God, we are free to do whatever!
What About Jesus’ Interpretation of Scripture? What About Other Religious Texts?
Eruesso used the example that Jesus gave a new twist on the scripture, and we should not trash the bible, but look at it with fresh eyes. He also used the example that he himself is doing something that Jesus himself did (promote love while ditching rituals).
This claim is very perplexing to me. First of all, Jesus Christ did nothing to alter 1 text of scripture at all. He did not say, “Ditch rituals, and love each other.” Jesus’ message was, “Keep the rituals, but don’t forget love.” I see in no way how that can be confused, and Jesus even says language directly to suggest this (indicating in one example that they should have done the fasting & tithes without neglecting the love). In other words, the pharisees followed the laws of God, but had hate & condemnation in their hearts. They may not have murdered, but they hated their fellow man in their hearts. Jesus said don’t do that. He said love all, while still following the laws of God exactly.
So I have no idea where you get this notion that Jesus somehow changed the bible, or in any way suggest that Jesus’ God was different than the Old Testament God. Jesus believed very devoutly (which is very obvious from the texts), that God’s laws are valid, and followed them. In the event that some say “the old covenant passed away, etc.” God himself declared a new coming covenant in the bible. So the things Jesus did teach, Jesus said God sent him to do it (meaning Jesus is just doing what God told him to do–meaning God in fact is changing it). To any thing Jesus did not do that others may have done, Jesus said God already told him it was okay for him to do or not do. Either he is a liar, lunatic, or was truthful. The old testament that made these claims of a messiah are also either lying, mad men, or was the word of God. There is no in-between. If you want to back up & say it is all legend (the 4th option), then you may as well go ahead & throw away your bible indeed. It is (in that situation), nothing but a bunch of blubbering idiots making crap up! Would you cherish a text that a mad-man in your local psych ward wrote too? I hope not! I would throw it in the garbage, or use it to pick up dog poop. it certainly won’t contain any spiritual message I gave a flip about.
Now we come to an issue with Jesus. He says some very extraordinary things concerning God, and says God gives him permission & authority to do certain things. If anyone came up to me, and said God is granting them authority, that they know God, and the other things Jesus said, I would expect to see some evidence before I believed them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
And that is exactly what the bible says Jesus did. He healed people, he turned water to wine, he walked on water, he was raised from the dead, etc. Those are pretty outlandish claims for anyone, especially a devout Jew! All the apostles testify to this, and they were told to never lie (it was a grave sin).
Either he (and the apostles/prophets) were truthful, full of crap, or crazy. There is no in-between. It is doubtful they are ALL crazy, as groups generally aren’t crazy all together (especially Paul who comes on the scene a bit later). It is doubtful they all lied (or else they are the biggest hypocrites in history). You can reject that argument, and say, “But that is all legend made up after Jesus died by random people who didn’t know him.”
Well, if you are going to question the bible & all religious texts, then your God once again becomes completely irrelevant & useless to mankind. Either it is true, or all religions are a crock of “crap.” Either God exists & communicated, or He didn’t. Either he cares about that little girl being raped & plans to make it right, or he doesn’t care. There is no in-between. If he doesn’t care, he is evil & not worth a hill of beans. If he plans to make it right, he is fair & should be followed & obeyed.
The historicity of the early documents show strong evidence that Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, etc. were witnesses to Christ. Paul witnessed Christ after Jesus’ death, but he also knew the early apostles.
All of these texts agree on the fundamental teachings, claims, and miracles of Christ. Either believe them or throw them in the garbage. I don’t see how there can be any other way. Either it is a story made up by mean men, stories made up by honest men who were crazy, stories made up completely to try & gain a buck, or they are the truth. If they are anything at all other than the truth, they are a piece of crap! I would spit on them & burn them every one!
But What About The Gospel of Thomas & Other False Books?
People seeking a money-making scheme is nothing new. I am sure there were several other “gospels” being written after Jesus for purposes of trying to sell them for a buck to the early Christians. They are probably still being written today. The same thing happens today with all sorts of alleged “sacred artifacts.” After the dead sea scrolls were discovered & became popular, there were tons of merchants trying to sell new “undiscovered scrolls.” Does that mean we should completely discount the dead sea scrolls because of that fact? Of course not! So why discount the gospels because there were later fraudulent ones found?
Does that mean the original gospels aren’t true, because there probably were scammers who tried to make other “gospels”? So if someone creates a fake “Gucci” purse & sells it at your local flea market, does that mean there isn’t an original somewhere? Of course not. In order for there to be a fake, then there must be an original! If a fake is the only one, it is not a fake at all, it is the only original!
The places many of the manuscripts came from are places Paul traveled to (Corinth, etc.), and they held onto these documents & writings of the Apostle Paul. Even if you discounted all other scriptures, or if you were suspicious of even 1 book in the New Testament, you should at least accept 1 of them, and they all agree on the nature of Christ, his teachings, and what it meant for humanity. So if you picked even 1 book of the New Testament that you think might be historically true and honestly written by testamony, you may as well accept them all because they all teach the same thing about Christ.
To discount them ALL as “legend” is dishonest. If you truly believe they are nothing more than exaggerations & legend, then Jesus is nothing more than any preacher you may see in your local church. Or he was nothing more than a mad-man or liar. Or he was the messiah. Why believe anything the “author” of the exaggerated religious text says about him? You have no basis to believe anything they said if you don’t believe it is true. If one person wrote a book and told even one lie, would you not reject or be severely skeptical of all other crap they said?
And what about books of Moses, and other prophets? These people come out and say God is talking to them. They come out & record miraculous events witnessed by whole groups of people (many of which archeological discoveries agree with). Are these nothing more than mad-men? Liars? Scam artists? Or were they telling the truth? Could you really believe something I wrote if I claimed to be the Messiah? I doubt it. You would probably write off everything as non-sense & call me a fool.
Again, all books agree in the New Testament. Either the whole New Testament is a fraud, or it isn’t. If even 1 gospel or writing is true, you may as well accept them all because they all agree 100% on the fundamental teachings of Jesus (he died, was the son of God, messiah, etc.). If you think they are all frauds, why believe them at all? Why believe even 1 teaching, as the “author” may have been making all the stuff up?
Again, this is purely secular & atheistic reasoning you use when examining all religious texts. That is perfectly fine to do objectively on a part of your individual journey, and I respect that totally. But I just don’t see how you can say that all religions tap into God, when religions are contradictory in their teachings, level of acceptable morality, etc. It is like saying different treasure maps with different directions all lead to the same treasure. They can’t all be right. If God communicated, logic would dictate one is correct. If he hasn’t communicated, why follow anything? There is no known way to “tap into” God in any way. How does a girl getting raped at this very moment “tap into” this mysterious undefinable force? Why isn’t this God helping her? Will this God ever execute justice on the rapist? Will this God allow a resurrection or eternal life? Do we survive death consciously? A God that cannot be defined nor provides these answers is useless to everyone.
Why not just be a nice atheist or deist (an open minded atheist) who does as he pleases if you reject all religious interpretations of God, or only pick & choose the ones that fit (so long as it doesn’t bother others)? Of course I don’t want you to become an atheist at all, and you are free to believe what you will.
Conclusion: Morality, God, and Religion Oh My!
These are all things I have pondered in the past, and your recent posts have made me think of them a bit more. I felt the urge to discuss some of these views. Again, I am not saying “believe what I believe,” nor am I saying, “My way is right, everyone else is wrong.” That is not my point at all.
Instead, I am merely trying to provide a different perspective. If nothing else, I hope it sharpens your beliefs & allows you to think of things you may have not considered.
The way I see it, if people are on a journey to find God, they eventually have to take a side. People cannot stand in the middle ground forever (or it is a very weak theology or level of spirituality like that of a child). Either one rejects God, or eventually chooses a path & embraces God.
We can forge or create our own made-up paths, but where will that lead us? It will only lead to a very shallow theology, with cognitive dissonance as we will never be able to establish an ultimate picture of God. What sense does that make? If there is a treasure, why not choose a treasure map that says it leads to treasure?
If God exists, but keeps quite & doesn’t care about us, we may as well live as if there is no God. If God has indeed dictated rules, we should follow them. That is the basic summary of this article. Morality means nothing unless there is an ultimate authority telling us what is an acceptable level of morality. Only then can we truly compare & define what is right & what is wrong. If there is no God doing this, we should ignore God. If God is doing this, we should seek out which religion we believe is God’s word, and follow it.
We can also try to re-define God ourselves, and again, this is nothing new. But what good is it? What makes this God different from the flying spaghetti monster? What makes this God just? What makes this God worth a flip? He certainly isn’t good to create a creation that suffers in torment as most people do/will do.
In closing, I just want to say thanks so much for your replies to my question. It is always great to be able to compare notes & see where we are in our journey. I hope I haven’t offended you at all, as that is never my purpose in writing. It is only to offer new ideas, new insight, and force people to question their own beliefs. Again, people do this to me all the time.
If our beliefs cannot be challenged, if they cannot be defended, why believe them at all? It is a childish belief with no basis. If we want to truly reach a satisfying level of spirituality, we must overcome these obstacles. We must know our beliefs, defend them, embrace them, and ultimately live them.
All journeys require a destination. I just want to give you some things to ponder on your journey, and may you choose your destination well. Good luck, and God bless friend!
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Posted under God, bible questions, comparative religions, reflections
